Rhi. (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rhivolution) wrote2011-01-18 07:42 pm
rhivolution) wrote2011-01-18 07:42 pm
Entry tags:
We're really bad eggs. (DW-only)
The whole piracy of ebooks thing...yeah.
vito_excalibur wrote a good post elucidating her position, a lot of which I agree with, and ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
karenhealey said some stuff in response in the LJ comments that rang really wrong to me, but I couldn't really put my finger on why. I've come back after dinner to find some responses by deepad (The politics of discussing illegal file-sharing) and colorblue (this is not a post about yoga!) that are very good in pointing out just exactly what I hadn't quite processed: just how Western the concept of intellectual property rights is, as it exists now.
Additional posts on this topic can be found attroisroyaumes' roundup.
So, before I start talking about my own POV, please consider that there are other important viewpoints on the topic...but those non-Western views dovetail with my own concept.
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I find it really problematic to say that you shouldn't access books illegally at all, full stop.
Firstly, I was fortunate enough to grow up in an area with a really good public library system, then went to college in an area with a fairly good library system as well; both are in the US.* Therefore, I have been privileged enough to expect to read nearly anything I want for free, given time and patience. And frankly, while in the US, I never really had the money to buy as many new books as I read, considering the cost of hardcovers and trade paperbacks even before the advent of ebooks. (I read a LOT.)
This is generally true of me overall: I don't like to buy things I don't want to own and consume again. Period.
In comparison to my past experience, the UK library system has been lacking. Birmingham was quite bad, Glasgow is better but not as good as what I'd like. According to people I've spoken to--anecdotal, but a variety of people nonetheless--the system is not as good as it was decades ago. And now, government cuts are suspected to be ripping the remaining guts out sooner rather than later.
So yeah, go ahead, tell me to make a request at my library, so they can buy a copy of your book so I can read it. They won't laugh in my face, exactly.
Assuming they can even buy a copy of your book at all, which brings me to my second point.
I now live in Britain (still Western, still with a high standard of living), but many books, even on major publishers, do not always come out here, and vice versa. (There are, for example, loads of books by FSF author Gwyneth Jones that are on a major UK imprint but completely inaccessible in the US. There's also a Jones book on Aqueduct Press that doesn't have a UK publisher, but I don't blame Aqueduct for that, it being indie.) And I really can't afford the absolutely ridiculous cost of buying from the US and shipping. Most people I know don't have that kind of expendable income. And I'm not sure why Karen Healey didn't really address this very satisfactorily (imho) in her own post.
This is not the authors' fault, but the fault of the publishing industry. What needs to be done, in my mind, is what needs to be done with television: a revision and opening of international licensing, as well as a revision of ereader accessibility and restriction. (I mean, I'd like something better, like government-funded universal library access and Creative Commons reuse/remix stuff. But that ain't happening in the current socioeconomic model.)
So...I'm kinda descending into incoherency and must sum up: I don't want to whinge about how I can't get a bunch of books...though, frankly, it frustrates me on a regular basis.
Instead, there's a deeper issue here of which my life only skims the surface due to privilege: saying that piracy is universally terrible and what...it's not good, but there is often no other access option. (Now, you don't want to go wave that in an author's face, that's just fucking stupid. And, as I noted, most authors can do fuck-all about the situation anyway.) In a globalised society, seeing reviews and recs for things dangling out of the reach of people with limited funds or not in the US stings like hell. You have to globalise access, and not just to the Western world, either.
Kinda comes down to bread and roses, friends. Bread and roses.
ETA: I believe everyone should have access to information if they want it. Less about entitlement, more about fulfilling the bullshit lip service towards this sort of thing that's been going on for ages.
* I'm not fond of US government/bureaucracy overall; this is actually probably the biggest thing I miss from the US system. Except perhaps the US Postal Service.
vito_excalibur wrote a good post elucidating her position, a lot of which I agree with, and karenhealey said some stuff in response in the LJ comments that rang really wrong to me, but I couldn't really put my finger on why. I've come back after dinner to find some responses by deepad (The politics of discussing illegal file-sharing) and colorblue (this is not a post about yoga!) that are very good in pointing out just exactly what I hadn't quite processed: just how Western the concept of intellectual property rights is, as it exists now.Additional posts on this topic can be found at
troisroyaumes' roundup.So, before I start talking about my own POV, please consider that there are other important viewpoints on the topic...but those non-Western views dovetail with my own concept.
-----
I find it really problematic to say that you shouldn't access books illegally at all, full stop.
Firstly, I was fortunate enough to grow up in an area with a really good public library system, then went to college in an area with a fairly good library system as well; both are in the US.* Therefore, I have been privileged enough to expect to read nearly anything I want for free, given time and patience. And frankly, while in the US, I never really had the money to buy as many new books as I read, considering the cost of hardcovers and trade paperbacks even before the advent of ebooks. (I read a LOT.)
This is generally true of me overall: I don't like to buy things I don't want to own and consume again. Period.
In comparison to my past experience, the UK library system has been lacking. Birmingham was quite bad, Glasgow is better but not as good as what I'd like. According to people I've spoken to--anecdotal, but a variety of people nonetheless--the system is not as good as it was decades ago. And now, government cuts are suspected to be ripping the remaining guts out sooner rather than later.
So yeah, go ahead, tell me to make a request at my library, so they can buy a copy of your book so I can read it. They won't laugh in my face, exactly.
Assuming they can even buy a copy of your book at all, which brings me to my second point.
I now live in Britain (still Western, still with a high standard of living), but many books, even on major publishers, do not always come out here, and vice versa. (There are, for example, loads of books by FSF author Gwyneth Jones that are on a major UK imprint but completely inaccessible in the US. There's also a Jones book on Aqueduct Press that doesn't have a UK publisher, but I don't blame Aqueduct for that, it being indie.) And I really can't afford the absolutely ridiculous cost of buying from the US and shipping. Most people I know don't have that kind of expendable income. And I'm not sure why Karen Healey didn't really address this very satisfactorily (imho) in her own post.
This is not the authors' fault, but the fault of the publishing industry. What needs to be done, in my mind, is what needs to be done with television: a revision and opening of international licensing, as well as a revision of ereader accessibility and restriction. (I mean, I'd like something better, like government-funded universal library access and Creative Commons reuse/remix stuff. But that ain't happening in the current socioeconomic model.)
So...I'm kinda descending into incoherency and must sum up: I don't want to whinge about how I can't get a bunch of books...though, frankly, it frustrates me on a regular basis.
Instead, there's a deeper issue here of which my life only skims the surface due to privilege: saying that piracy is universally terrible and what...it's not good, but there is often no other access option. (Now, you don't want to go wave that in an author's face, that's just fucking stupid. And, as I noted, most authors can do fuck-all about the situation anyway.) In a globalised society, seeing reviews and recs for things dangling out of the reach of people with limited funds or not in the US stings like hell. You have to globalise access, and not just to the Western world, either.
Kinda comes down to bread and roses, friends. Bread and roses.
ETA: I believe everyone should have access to information if they want it. Less about entitlement, more about fulfilling the bullshit lip service towards this sort of thing that's been going on for ages.
* I'm not fond of US government/bureaucracy overall; this is actually probably the biggest thing I miss from the US system. Except perhaps the US Postal Service.
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Because, at the end of the day, as much as "go check it out of the library" grates because, um, accessibility much?, illegal downloads actively take money out of authors pockets, I understand where they are coming from. It's phenomenally hard to get paid a living wage for writing - especially fiction. Sales of Lessons From the Fatosphere do not, for example, support publishing another book along that vein even though everyone agrees it is a phenomenal book. Publishers don't care WHY the numbers don't support you, they just care that the numbers don't support you. And for someone who is seeing their stuff illegally downloaded in great number, I can see that being a hugely and fantastically angering situation.
You're right, of course, that the publishing model is broken. But it isn't readers alone who are suffering. And while we absolutely must talk about this in terms of access, I think we have to talk about it in the context of realizing that piracy actively deprives authors of livelihood.
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I think in my ideal world, everyone in the world would have access to a library run by the government, which would pay authors per access of their work.
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I mean, we all seem to acknowledge that writers really have very little influence over what their publishers are doing. Why isn't that pissing more writers off? I think part of it is because we already feel so precarious, so lucky in our position. The print publishing industry ESPECIALLY trades in legitimacy - I can't tell you how many times people have asked if I self-published and then the follow up is always "Oh, was it an e-book?" As though that's somehow a lesser format. While publishing (especially spec fic) OUGHT to be on the cutting edge of communications technology, it's really truly hidebound.
Though the romance industry is, it seems, willing to take a lot more risks and try an adaptive model (
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I think the issue of legitimacy comes from the lack of accessibility of the 'legitimate' format. Because it's so hard to access, it is therefore more legitimate and privileged and et cetera. It's a further part of the whole industry model, really, desperately trying to keep hold of an ageing* industrial complex. I worked on a printing press in the summer of '03, and even then they were massively cutting back on work. In retrospect, I'm really glad I didn't get into the publishing business after my undergrad degree.
It's a similar issue to media, in terms of the old boys club clinging to a sinking ship of a model, though media is adapting a little bit better to technology and some acceptance of very independently published work.
Romance is interesting, I think partially because it was already considered of 'dubious legitimacy' for multiple reasons (gender likely highly relevant therein), and also possibly because of content concerns with printing erotica?
Admittedly, outside of the 'legitimacy' issue, I have issues with ebooks overall, in the sense that my neurodiverse brain finds them hard to read properly on a screen, and I don't have a reader. (I also have a complex ethical code, so I personally pirate very very little.)
* Augh, British English, why do you have to throw these curveballs at me?
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In short, one thing that bugged me about Karen's initial LJ post on the subject is that she just so blithely insisted that we all just either request that our local library buy the books we want OR do an inter-library loan for books. Which only works if (a) the library CAN buy the book, and (b) the library doesn't charge you for ILL. I happen to live in a city with an *excellent* public library system AND i have access to an excellent public university library system, and sometimes even *i* can't get a book. Why? Because the public library is charging for ILL and the university library is getting more insistent that ILL requests be research-related.
I agree that the current IP model is completely broken and hurts people on both sides.
Also: colorblue's post (which i saw earlier today) is BRILLIANT, and i thank you for the deepad link because now i am itching to go read that post, too.
Possibly more thoughts later. *whoosh*
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(UK university libraries are very good, at least wrt academic works and literature. Unfortunately, accessing them as a resident, or even as a student at another university, is a PITA.)
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Discussing all this has made me realize that i want things to be better NOW. I really have no patience for slow, evolutionary-style change when it comes to social and governmental systems.
Anyway. I keep saying i'm working and yet i find myself over here again. Curse my hummingbird attention span!
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Worth it to whom, i have to wonder. Sheesh.
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People do what is easiest for them to get what they want. People will happily pay for content, if you make it easy to do so. When piracy is so much easier than legitimate means, then people will steal.
Upping the consequences of the theft doesn't change the behavior, if they still cannot get what they want honestly.
Amazon's Digital Text Platform takes away the publisher, I hope things will continue this way.
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The current publishing circumstances are badly broken, but like the RIAA, the publishers are going to cling to the last dying shred of "their way" until it's gone.
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Wordy McFucking word. I've not been following this e-book piracy debate, but there's a persistent debate in Australian publishing/reading communities about one's right to purchase books online from overseas publishers, and the myriad ways in which doing so destroys the local industry and/or kittens. I think I conclude that the publishing system is seriously fucked.
I mean, erm, hi! What I actually came over here for was to say hi and ask where you found me, just out of pure curiosity. :)
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Neither of these may be the most ethical option, but there are many ways to access SRB's books aside from Amazon - even if you don't live anywhere near a big bookstore.
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Is there not a major online retailer in Australia, then?
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- inflated prices for Australian editions
or
- inflated prices for imported books, unless they're classics
plus
- shipping.
I understand the Australian publishing industry is working with a different market and in a different economic environment to the US publishers, and apparently it costs more to *produce* a book here. But they are going to have to adapt in either price or time, or both, because waiting months for a book to be released here and THEN paying twice as much does not a loyal customer base make.
Generally, I can get a better range of books, cheaper, by going straight to bookdepository.
Interestingly, there is an abebooks.com.au, which I use frequently - I do try to buy from Australian or NZ second-hand sellers if I can, provided that the price isn't ridiculous (sometimes cultural differences matter - I got a copy of the Australian Women's Weekly Cookbook 1972 for less than ten dollars US inclusive of shipping, from someone in Texas who didn't know what they had; it would've cost me forty dollars here).
This site is also pretty handy for figuring out who's selling any given book. Most of the time, the books I want (academic) have to be bought from the British anyway, and this is easier than going over and bringing them back in a suitcase...
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There *are* laws against bringing in restricted items, in person or by mail. This includes erasers, electric flyswats and pornography, but not books unless they contain 'objectionable material', whatever THAT means.
... yeah, I read the customs website in considerable detail. I had my reasons.
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