So, I wanted to hit two quick "oh, no, I think that was __" things when reading your notes, and then I have some Thinky Thoughts. The complaining about consent issues with mentally ill characters, using River as an example, was me. Though I think everyone else on the panel went OMG YES pretty much simultaneously, so. I am sooo glad that I'm not alone with the flailing horror over the idea that "mentally ill" automatically means "incapable of consent." Um, and I thiiink the "things can be cool as well as wrong" was first mentioned by either JoSelle or onceupon, rather than me, though, again, it seemed to be a pretty strong agreement moment.
Now, substance! Gaslighting! I didn't have a name for it either until onceupon used that term in a chat with me a few months ago. And it's such an apt, descriptive name for something I've experienced so many times that I kinda glommed onto it. Before I had that word for it, I'd talk about different versions of reality/memories of events, etc., but it's handy to have just the one word.
Anyway, yes, I think you are absolutely right that it's not just a bipolar thing. The reason why we both talked about it in similar ways is less that it's a bipolar issue in general (I think) and more that we talk a lot to each other about all sorts of stuff, which often includes our own specific experiences of being bipolar, since that particular flavor of crazy is one of the things we have in common (we also talk about Star Trek a lot...). Which probably means that hearing us on a panel is a little weird, since we've got so many reference points in common by now that we're probably doing some conversational shorthand unintentionally. But I think the gaslighting experience, whether it's intentional or accidental, is probably an issue for many, many people with various mental illnesses, because once we're perceived as brain-broken in one way, of course our perceptions of reality aren't to be trusted.
And this is one of the places where popular media makes it harder for us, topically enough. Because the "generic crazy" character so often has hallucinations, etc., no matter what kind of illness they supposedly have. And it's rare that a character who is depicted as mentally ill + hallucinations is aware of that possibility and dealing with it, so there's this sort of cultural message about how 1) all crazy people misperceive reality and 2) none of them realize they're doing it. Thus, of course, we are not to be trusted to accurately recall events, etc.
I'm really glad you were there, and had a chance to share some of your thoughts. Getting an opportunity to talk about this openly at WisCon was kind of more amazing than I'd even expected it to be (as well as surprisingly draining. I had to shower and then sort of stare into space for a while after), and meeting people like you was a huge part of that. So thank you.
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So, I wanted to hit two quick "oh, no, I think that was __" things when reading your notes, and then I have some Thinky Thoughts. The complaining about consent issues with mentally ill characters, using River as an example, was me. Though I think everyone else on the panel went OMG YES pretty much simultaneously, so. I am sooo glad that I'm not alone with the flailing horror over the idea that "mentally ill" automatically means "incapable of consent." Um, and I thiiink the "things can be cool as well as wrong" was first mentioned by either JoSelle or
Now, substance! Gaslighting! I didn't have a name for it either until
Anyway, yes, I think you are absolutely right that it's not just a bipolar thing. The reason why we both talked about it in similar ways is less that it's a bipolar issue in general (I think) and more that we talk a lot to each other about all sorts of stuff, which often includes our own specific experiences of being bipolar, since that particular flavor of crazy is one of the things we have in common (we also talk about Star Trek a lot...). Which probably means that hearing us on a panel is a little weird, since we've got so many reference points in common by now that we're probably doing some conversational shorthand unintentionally. But I think the gaslighting experience, whether it's intentional or accidental, is probably an issue for many, many people with various mental illnesses, because once we're perceived as brain-broken in one way, of course our perceptions of reality aren't to be trusted.
And this is one of the places where popular media makes it harder for us, topically enough. Because the "generic crazy" character so often has hallucinations, etc., no matter what kind of illness they supposedly have. And it's rare that a character who is depicted as mentally ill + hallucinations is aware of that possibility and dealing with it, so there's this sort of cultural message about how 1) all crazy people misperceive reality and 2) none of them realize they're doing it. Thus, of course, we are not to be trusted to accurately recall events, etc.
I'm really glad you were there, and had a chance to share some of your thoughts. Getting an opportunity to talk about this openly at WisCon was kind of more amazing than I'd even expected it to be (as well as surprisingly draining. I had to shower and then sort of stare into space for a while after), and meeting people like you was a huge part of that. So thank you.